All these rubbish debates is just mental masturbation...poor
buggers.....leftie and left and all the rubbish....learn from the real
world..the world of the working class masses
>From: she_forum-request_at_itk.ntnu.no
>Reply-To: she_forum_at_itk.ntnu.no
>To: she_forum_at_itk.ntnu.no
>Subject: SHE_Forum Digest, Vol 14, Issue 3
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 12:01:27 +0200 (MEST)
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. The French 'NO' (trond andresen)
> 2. RE: The French 'NO' (Joseph Halevi)
> 3. Re: The French 'NO' (Peter Kriesler)
> 4. RE: The French 'NO' (trond andresen)
> 5. RE: The French 'NO' (Dimitri UZUNIDIS)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 08:42:36 +0200
>From: trond andresen <trond.andresen_at_itk.ntnu.no>
>Subject: [HE] The French 'NO'
>To: she_forum_at_itk.ntnu.no
>Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050530082518.048052c0_at_mail.itk.ntnu.no>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>As an European leftie that is a citizen of one of the two Western European
>countries which is not a member of the EU, I have through the years felt a
>bit exasperated that left-wing academics outside Europe cannot understand
>how radicals can be against the EU project: "such a position should be left
>to Le Pen and the British Conservatives."
>
>I remember having a brief discussion about this during one of the sessions
>at the SHE conference in Sydney in December last year.
>
>After the largely left-dominated 'NO' movement in France for everyone to
>observe, I hope it will now be more easy to get overseas academic left-wing
>acceptance for the position that the EU is mainly a capitalist-bureaucratic
>empire project, and that national domestic autonomy also under capitalism
>is
>preferable by far.
>
>Anyway, I don't expect to convince anyone by this, I only ask them to
>seriously consider the idea.
>
>Trond Andresen
>
>--
>Trond Andresen <trond.andresen_at_itk.ntnu.no>
>
>The Norwegian University of Science and Technology
>Faculty of Information Technology, Mathematics and Electrical Engineering
>Department of Engineering Cybernetics
>N-7491 Trondheim, NORWAY
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 17:15:28 +1000
>From: "Joseph Halevi" <J.Halevi_at_econ.usyd.edu.au>
>Subject: RE: [HE] The French 'NO'
>To: "trond andresen" <trond.andresen_at_itk.ntnu.no>,
> <she_forum_at_itk.ntnu.no>
>Message-ID:
> <D40584BB9AFC3B49B04FA7B4DD1D2CF50F3279_at_evs2.econ.usyd.edu.au>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Dear Trond
>I totally agree with you, I have been against the horrible Maastricht
>treaty, Dublin's stability pact, the Amsterdam Treaty and the Nice
>Treaty. The poliitics of the EU leading up to Maastricht have been a
>major cause of the war in Yugolasvia and specifically in Bosnia.
>Leftwing academics in the anglo world have no idea of intra european
>union's politics and economics, it totally by-passes them as they are
>not accustomed to Lucrezia Borgia's politics. Also Brussels is very deft
>at cheating and at parading - outside the EU - the social Europe version
>and not the true face of the Maastricht + all the rest stuff.
>Best regards, joseph
>
>joseph halevi
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: she_forum-bounces_at_itk.ntnu.no
>[mailto:she_forum-bounces_at_itk.ntnu.no] On Behalf Of trond andresen
>Sent: Monday, 30 May 2005 4:43 PM
>To: she_forum_at_itk.ntnu.no
>Subject: [HE] The French 'NO'
>
>
>As an European leftie that is a citizen of one of the two Western
>European
>countries which is not a member of the EU, I have through the years felt
>a
>bit exasperated that left-wing academics outside Europe cannot
>understand
>how radicals can be against the EU project: "such a position should be
>left
>to Le Pen and the British Conservatives."
>
>I remember having a brief discussion about this during one of the
>sessions
>at the SHE conference in Sydney in December last year.
>
>After the largely left-dominated 'NO' movement in France for everyone to
>
>observe, I hope it will now be more easy to get overseas academic
>left-wing
>acceptance for the position that the EU is mainly a
>capitalist-bureaucratic
>empire project, and that national domestic autonomy also under
>capitalism is
>preferable by far.
>
>Anyway, I don't expect to convince anyone by this, I only ask them to
>seriously consider the idea.
>
>Trond Andresen
>
>--
>Trond Andresen <trond.andresen_at_itk.ntnu.no>
>
>The Norwegian University of Science and Technology
>Faculty of Information Technology, Mathematics and Electrical
>Engineering Department of Engineering Cybernetics N-7491 Trondheim,
>NORWAY
>
>_______________________________________________
>SHE_Forum mailing list
>SHE_Forum_at_mail.itk.ntnu.no
>http://mail.itk.ntnu.no/mailman/listinfo/she_forum
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 17:18:06 +1000
>From: "Peter Kriesler" <P.Kriesler_at_unsw.edu.au>
>Subject: Re: [HE] The French 'NO'
>To: she_forum_at_itk.ntnu.no
>Message-ID:
> <OFB6C6A5B4.8656E5F0-ONCA257011.0027A030-CA257011.00285D70_at_94.12.208>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Trond, I do not understand how you can say that the left outside Europe
>says that. As far as I can tell, they (we) argue that the economics
>underlying the EMU should be rejected. It is clearly based on a view of
>the efficacy of markets, the primacy of monetary policy, and the impotence
>of government. To have as the only European wide macro policy monetary
>policy run by an independent central bank whose only charter is anti
>inflation; to have no mention at any serious level, that unemployment,
>uneven development etc. are macroeconomic problems needing some sort of
>central fiscal authority to offset the European Central Bank, and no
>debate about widening the Central Bank's charter beyond inflation. It is
>this, monetarist, vision of Europe that the left must reject.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Peter Kriesler
>School of Economics
>UNSW
>Sydney 2052
>http://economics.web.unsw.edu.au/people/pkriesler/
>-------------- next part --------------
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL:
>http://mail.itk.ntnu.no/pipermail/she_forum/attachments/20050530/ed457ec2/attachment-0001.htm
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 09:46:57 +0200
>From: trond andresen <trond.andresen_at_itk.ntnu.no>
>Subject: RE: [HE] The French 'NO'
>To: she_forum_at_itk.ntnu.no
>Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050530094443.030cdcd8_at_mail.itk.ntnu.no>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Joseph Halevi kindly reminded me that there are three, not
>two, countries in Western Europe outside the EU.
>
>Ooops and sorry. Maybe I unconsciously think of Iceland as part of
>Norway... ;-)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Trond Andresen
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 10:37:40 +0200
>From: Dimitri UZUNIDIS <uzunidis_at_univ-littoral.fr>
>Subject: RE: [HE] The French 'NO'
>To: "Joseph Halevi" <J.Halevi_at_econ.usyd.edu.au>, "trond andresen"
> <trond.andresen_at_itk.ntnu.no>, <she_forum_at_itk.ntnu.no>
>Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20050530101308.00b4aba0_at_opale.univ-littoral.fr>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
>
>Dear All,
>
>This French "NO" can and should also be understood as a reaction against
>the global liberal policies, implemented in the whole world and inspired by
>some industrial and financial oligarchies and global private
>technostructures. This is a clear message to reject in the whole world this
>kind a fraud. It is of our interest to understand in this way the result of
>this referendum.
>Best Regards,
>
>Dimitri Uzunidis
>France
>
>
>
>
>
>At 17:15 30/05/05 +1000, vous avez écrit:
> >Dear Trond
> >I totally agree with you, I have been against the horrible Maastricht
> >treaty, Dublin's stability pact, the Amsterdam Treaty and the Nice
> >Treaty. The poliitics of the EU leading up to Maastricht have been a
> >major cause of the war in Yugolasvia and specifically in Bosnia.
> >Leftwing academics in the anglo world have no idea of intra european
> >union's politics and economics, it totally by-passes them as they are
> >not accustomed to Lucrezia Borgia's politics. Also Brussels is very deft
> >at cheating and at parading - outside the EU - the social Europe version
> >and not the true face of the Maastricht + all the rest stuff.
> >Best regards, joseph
> >
> >joseph halevi
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: she_forum-bounces_at_itk.ntnu.no
> >[mailto:she_forum-bounces_at_itk.ntnu.no] On Behalf Of trond andresen
> >Sent: Monday, 30 May 2005 4:43 PM
> >To: she_forum_at_itk.ntnu.no
> >Subject: [HE] The French 'NO'
> >
> >
> >As an European leftie that is a citizen of one of the two Western
> >European
> >countries which is not a member of the EU, I have through the years felt
> >a
> >bit exasperated that left-wing academics outside Europe cannot
> >understand
> >how radicals can be against the EU project: "such a position should be
> >left
> >to Le Pen and the British Conservatives."
> >
> >I remember having a brief discussion about this during one of the
> >sessions
> >at the SHE conference in Sydney in December last year.
> >
> >After the largely left-dominated 'NO' movement in France for everyone to
> >
> >observe, I hope it will now be more easy to get overseas academic
> >left-wing
> >acceptance for the position that the EU is mainly a
> >capitalist-bureaucratic
> >empire project, and that national domestic autonomy also under
> >capitalism is
> >preferable by far.
> >
> >Anyway, I don't expect to convince anyone by this, I only ask them to
> >seriously consider the idea.
> >
> >Trond Andresen
> >
> >--
> >Trond Andresen <trond.andresen_at_itk.ntnu.no>
> >
> >The Norwegian University of Science and Technology
> >Faculty of Information Technology, Mathematics and Electrical
> >Engineering Department of Engineering Cybernetics N-7491 Trondheim,
> >NORWAY
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >SHE_Forum mailing list
> >SHE_Forum_at_mail.itk.ntnu.no
> >http://mail.itk.ntnu.no/mailman/listinfo/she_forum
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >SHE_Forum mailing list
> >SHE_Forum_at_mail.itk.ntnu.no
> >http://mail.itk.ntnu.no/mailman/listinfo/she_forum
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>SHE_Forum_at_mail.itk.ntnu.no
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>End of SHE_Forum Digest, Vol 14, Issue 3
>****************************************
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